Changing Status in Spain

Online, earliest cita I could get was for 2+ months later. So I decided to try the office anyway, with no cita.

I filled out the application form and made two copies, copied my whole passport, made a summary-sheet showing when I'd gone in and out of Spain, gave copy of bank account summary, letter showing medical coverage, copied my Permisso de Residencia (both sides), copy of padron. Summary-sheet, bank summary, medical letter are in English.

On 9/21 I went to the National Police office in Jerez (Plaza del Arroyo 17) without a cita. At 11:30 or so, there was no line, and I walked in and sat down in front of an officer. I put my Permiso de Residencia and passport and stack of photocopied documents on the table. I pointed to the application form and "1st Renovacion" check-box. She asked if I had a cita, and I said no, can't get one until November. She said something like "I can give you a cita for Friday (2 days from now)" and she looked on a computer and in a logbook.

Then instead she thumbed through the top few of my documents for a moment, had me date and sign the two application forms, then said "The documents will be sent to Cadiz for processing. Take them upstairs to be stamped, then either you're done or they'll send you back down here." I went upstairs, the two application forms got stamped, back downstairs. Officer gave me one stamped application form back, took the rest of the stack, said you'll get a letter in the mail, done !

It happened so quickly that later I wished I'd checked the stack of documents more carefully before handing it over. I think I gave them all the right stuff, maybe with a couple of duplicates.

Six and eight days later, tried to check status SEDE infoext2 [may have changed to SEDE login], got "no information found". Tried various submission dates, no luck. Eventually figured out I've been using it wrong all along: the "Cl@ve" icon is hiding ALL digital ID methods, not just Cl@ve (which I don't have). Clicked on it, clicked "eidentifier", used my digital certificate, and it found my tramite ! In progress, two weeks after I submitted it. And it gave me the expediente number, which I didn't have before.

On 10/17, received a letter (dated 10/5) saying I must pay tasa of €15.76, which means they're approving my renewal. Have to pay the tasa within 10 days of receiving the letter. Then within 15 days of paying the tasa, have to mail the paid tasa to the extranjeria office in Cadiz.

Paid the tasa and mailed one copy on 10/19.

10/29, online status still says "en tramite". So I guess it won't change through the various stages of this process, until done at the end.

11/8, I had a cita I got long ago, so I went to the office. They said "still en tramite, you just have to wait for a letter in the mail, and anyway you won't be coming to this office, you'll be going to another office". And they gave me a slip of paper with another office's address, also in Jerez (Plaza Domecq 46-47).

Then I said "I'm traveling to USA, do I need to get a regreso ?", and they said yes. [Note: I'm in the renewal stage after paying tasa, before having fingerprints taken. Not sure if that matters.] So I got tasa forms from them (€10.30), went to bank and paid the tasa, back to office and applied for regreso (submitted EX-13 form, passport and copy of ID page, one of the stamped tasa forms, maybe copy of residency renewal application form). At first they said come pick it up in 2-3 days, then they said 3-5 days, then said 2-3 days.

Went back 3 days later (11/11) first thing in the morning, and regreso was done. Handed over passport, got back passport and a one-page regreso (pic), good for up to 3 months.

1/16, went to the office, they say renewal status still is "en tramite", and the status will change online when the letter is mailed.

On 1/17, the online status changed to "resuelto - favorable" !

On 1/26, received letter saying go to Extranjeria to pick up your card.

1/27, went to Extranjeria. They handed me a tasa to pay (€18.54), said come back in a couple of days with the tasa, two pictures, and copy of passport ID page (as well as original passport, old residency card, and letter showing approval).

Tried to check status SEDE infoext2, got "no information found". I think their system is having problems. [May have changed to SEDE login. But that doesn't find my expediente either.]

1/30: Back to Extranjeria. Handed over: passport and copy of ID page, renewal sheet I received in mail AND a copy of it, old residency card, paid tasa form, two photos. Guy grumbled that I handed over copies of same photo I used 1.5 years ago on my original card, but accepted them. Lots of electronic fingerprinting of my index fingers, pressing them, then rolling them, several times. Finally done, but no new card yet. I couldn't quite understand what he was saying, but sounds like we'll get an automated phone call or SMS in a couple of weeks, come pick up the card somewhere. I asked if it will be this same office, but couldn't get a straight answer. He gave me a "resguardo" paper that says it's valid legal ID for 45 days. Paper he gave me says when that phone call comes, bring passport and old residency card and the resguardo, come to same office, pick up new card.

2/7 and 2/28: Still can't find my expediente online.

3/1: To Extranjeria. My card still is not available, somehow they received batch 16 but not batch 15 (mine). Try again in 2-3 weeks.

3/15: Back to Extranjeria, and they had my card. They never called us, and now they say we were supposed to call them. Card has an issue date of 1/30 on it, so it took 45 days to get from the main office in Cadiz city to my hands. Valid for 2 years since start date of previous card.

So, the whole process took 1 week short of 6 months.

5/23/2017: Had an appointment at local government office (on Calle Consistorio). Got paper application forms; the electronic one online is totally different and makes no sense. Found that the application and interview will be done in this office; we don't have to go to Cadiz. My lady was born in Peru but now is a Spanish citizen; we're told that she needs documents from Spain, not Peru. All good news. I already have residency; after we get PdH, probably next time I go to renew my residency, I'll be given a 5-year renewal instead of a 2-year renewal.

Later, looking at the papers we were given: Nowhere do the papers say you must have been padron together for N months, or even padron together on the date of application, and nowhere do they say you must show a padron of any kind. But the main "Solicitud de Inscripcion" application form has spaces for both names and only space for one address, implying that you must be living together.

In USA, went to my state offices. Cost $92 to get certified birth certificate and no-marriage certificate, another $80 to have them apostilled.

The birth certificate is mostly handwritten (it's the original form filled out by the doctor or nurse), and hard to read, so I typed up a text file of my reading of it, to make things easier for the translators. Also, I'm pointing out to the translators that the two apostille pages are absolutely identical except for a certificate number, so really I need 3 pages translated instead of 4.

8/20: In Spain, sent email to four translator services, asking for quotes. Three responded, and one of them was half the price of the others: Idiomatic Language Services

8/22: Emailed scans of my documents, to be translated.

8/24: Went to Registro Central in Jerez to get solteria document for my lady, and they said "oh, after you do PdH at the local ayuntamiento, you have to come here and do it a second time, with a second set of original documents" ! And we need to show two years of padron together ! Local ayuntamiento didn't say anything about this. Local ayuntamiento gave us nice clear printed instructions, but the registro has nothing to give us except oral instructions. Argh ! At least there are no fees charged at the registro, either for the solteria document or the PdH.

8/24: Translation is done, received scans in email. Asked for second set of paper copies.

8/31: Received translations in paper mail: two sets of paper copies. Total cost was €91.

9/4: To local city hall, and did pareja there. Lots of forms and handing over papers and signing and stamping stuff. Good news: we have everything needed (mainly, birth certificate and soltera certificate for each of us; no padron needed). Bad news: the man is taking all of our originals, and we're going to need a second set of originals for the registro central. He won't accept compulsados, and neither will registro; they both demand originals. Charge here today is only €2.50, but we've paid about $300 to get these original documents from USA and Barcelona, and we're going to have to get another complete set. Mayor has to sign our certificate here, so we'll receive that in about 2 months [later, I'm told no, it will be mailed to registro]. Were given a stamped copy of first page of our application form, as proof we applied.

9/7: Mailed forms to USA to start getting another copy of birth certificate and no-marriage certificate. Another $92.

9/20: Went to registro civil, and my partner negotiated with them. They may accept some form of "compulsado" from the ayuntamiento about my documents. At registro, there will be an interview of sorts, so I have to know a bit of Spanish. They want 2 years of padron. None of this is written down anywhere.

9/21: To town hall, and my partner talked them into doing compulsados of my USA original documents, to take to Registro. But there's a problem with her padron.

9/28: To the Registro Civil with my partner and her parents. In and soon the four of us are in the office with a lady. We hand over a mound of documents and forms and ID cards. It seems to be sufficient, even though a couple of our documents have defects (no originals of my US documents, since we handed them in at ayuntamiento, and my partner's padron has a 4-month gap in it, so she shows utility bills).

Her parents hand over their IDs and sign a form attesting that we're honest people and not running a scam. Then the three of them clear out of the office and the lady talks to me to write up a document. Takes about 15 minutes, and stretches my Spanish language abilities. It's an interview/quiz, and I have to tell her things such as the names of my partner's parents and son, how we met, how long we've lived together, etc. She prints up the document, I correct it, she prints it again, I sign it, then I'm out and my partner is in.

Her interview takes even longer than mine, which surprises me, since she knows the language. Turns out she was bonding with the lady, they chatted about all kinds of things.

Then we're out. Our application and documents are submitted. They will get back to us with any additions needed. I have to continue getting second set of originals from USA, apostilled and translated.

10: Ordered and received new documents from USA.

11/7: Ordered new translations for new documents.

11/22: Went to Registro to deliver translated documents. Where my partner is told "we don't need those, we already have everything we need, you just had to call us to schedule your appointment for the final steps and ceremony, but sorry, earliest appointment we have is 2 months from now". Great, $250 down the drain, and they could have called us a month ago to schedule the final stuff.

1/16: Went to Registro to deliver photocopies of the DNIs of the two people who will be our witnesses.

1/19: Went to registro in nice clothes with our witnesses, to appear before a judge. Each group of people has a 5-minute time-slot. The judge read a short statement, asked if we were doing this of our own free will, etc. All four of us signed a form, judge gave us a Libro de Familia, we exchanged rings and kissed, judge said all done, and we're out.

So, the whole process took 8 months (probably could have been 4 if we'd pushed and been lucky), and cost about $550.

I notice that the Libro de Familia has "matrimonio" printed in it (not handwritten or typed, it's there in the basic printing of the booklet) in several places, and doesn't say "pareja de hecho" anywhere. Did we accidentally get married instead of PdH ?

I was able to download a "Certificado Matrimonio" online from Andalucia via Portal Adriano's "Obtencion del certificado de matrimonio". And it says "(4-2) Matrimonio: (4-2-1) Civil".

There seems to be no way to check the PdH registry of Andalucia online. No way to request a certificate.

2/4: I'm starting to suspect that we're BOTH PdH and married(civil). We did first at Ayuntamiento, then they said we had to go to Juzados/Registro. I think that was wrong; we did PdH at Ayuntamiento and then marriage at Juzgados. We never received any certificate from Ayuntamiento.

Yes, we're married.

10/2018: received email from Jerez Ayuntamiento saying our PdH is approved/resolved, we're PdH !

My situation after being married:

• I (US citizen) have lots of money (cash, no property) in USA, and almost none in Spain.
• My wife (Spanish citizen) has no property, almost no money, and several thousands of debts.
• My wife has a history of spending money a bit more than I like, and despite or against my wishes.
• My wife has an adult son from a previous marriage.
• For about 2 years now, I have been paying for her son's university, about €14K per year. Eventually this could total €70K.
• I expect that about 7 years from now, I will start paying for her niece's university.
• It's possible that about 13 years from now, I will start paying for university for her other niece and nephew.
• Four university's could add up to €300K total.
• My wife has a will in Spain, that has not been updated since the marriage.
• I have a will (not updated) in USA, and no will in Spain.
• On my death, I would like to divide my estate equally among my 4 siblings in USA and my Spanish wife.
• Some of my accounts in USA name my wife and siblings as equal beneficiaries.
• On my death, I would like to avoid the authorities taxing the inheritance to my Spanish wife.

My strategy thoughts:

• Gradually gift money to my wife (either in the form of the university payments, or in paying rent and pension fees, or in cash).
• Gradually reduce her share of my USA estate.
• Buy a Spanish life-insurance policy with my wife as beneficiary.

1. Went to a Notary.
   
   
   • Front desk gave us a price estimate of €70 to €80, but were unable or unwilling to give an exact price ahead of time. This must be a common procedure; why no standard price ?
   • Got a cita to come back a couple of days later.
   
   
   
2. We went in to start the procedure.
   
   
   • They made copies of our ID cards and the Libro de Familia.
   • They didn't care that my partner has a child from a previous marriage.
   • I don't understand Spanish very well, and that caused a frown, maybe they were going to charge us for a translation to English, but I said I read Spanish pretty well.
   • They said since we were married in Andalucia, we're going to have to register this "capitulaciones matrimoniales" document there somehow.
   • Since we were married in a place with "gananciales" by default, and we're changing to "bienes separados", they asked if we had made any big transactions since we were married, any joint accounts, etc (we haven't).
   • Still no firm price, now "probably less than €100".
   • Come back tomorrow to sign the document.
   
   
   
3. We went back.
   
   
   • Document looks good, we signed it.
   • Paid €80.
   • For some reason we can't take the document home now, they'll call us when we can pick it up.
   
   
   
4. They didn't call, so 3 weeks later we called and went in.
   
   
   • Surprise: price of document was less than we paid, here's €19 or so refund ! Total ended up at €62.40, of which half was for preparing the document, other half was for copies and IVA etc.
   • Cover-sheet has me titled as "doña" (female), but that's not part of the actual document, secretary just crossed out the "a" for us.
   • The official document doesn't have our signatures in it, just the notary's stamps. I guess they file the signature page locally instead of including it in the filing to the registry.
   • Another surprise: they're going to file it in the Barcelona registry. I thought we were going to have to file it in the Jerez registry somehow, since we were married in Jerez.
   • When it gets filed with registry, the registry will send a letter to us confirming that.
   
   
   
5. About 2 months later, after half a dozen calls to notario saying we haven't received letter from Registro, did they file the document, now notario says WE have to get a lawyer to file the document, they don't do that.
   
   
6. I see in Agreement24's "Preguntas Frecuentes sobre Capitulaciones Matrimoniales":
   "Las capitulaciones tienen como requisito de validez que consten en escritura publica". Does "escritura publica" mean Registro, or notario's files ? But that article also says filing in Registro is not necessary, but then you are not protected in the case of third parties who don't know about the agreement.
   
   
7. An authoritative-sounding person on Facebook said:
   
   First, a public document is any document emitted by the State (in any of its levels), the Registrar's books, or, most pertinently for common purposes, Notarial acts.
   
   As with many institutions in law, registering this isn't a matter of creating the change in state (that is, it isn't a "constitutivo" act) but rather, a matter of publicity ("declarativo"). Having the Registry show this information means the agreement HAS been notified to all third parties and is therefore actionable in any proceedings with third parties. If you don't register the act, the agreement is only actionable with third parties if you notify them of the agreement.
   
   A lawyer can draft the document, but you'll still need a Notary to elevate the [private] document to public document. A Notary can draft the document for you and elevate it to public document. However, it's up to you whether or not to register the change.
   
   I asked:
   
   So, if the document was signed by both parties in the marriage, and is in the notary's files, it is valid and in force to both of US, right ? In case of divorce, for example. And then if we give a copy to a specific third party, such as a bank, it is valid and in force with them ? That's probably good enough for us. No need to put it in Registro.
   
   and
   
   But I'm still a little confused by the terms. We had a notary draw up the document and we signed it there. It is in their files. That means it is a private document, not public. They or we could elevate it to public, which is the same as registering it with Registro. Do I have all of that right ?
   
   He responded:
   
   Regarding the first matter (the effectiveness of the document): yes, as the two of you have signed it, the document is effective between the two of you; it would also be effective against any third party who is presented with the agreement.
   
   Regarding the second matter (private/public): A Notarial document, signed and stamped by a Notary with his rotund and dramatic final statement of "lo elevo a documento publico", is a public document whether it is emitted over TVE or hidden in a crypt in Malaga. The Notary's expensive signature IS, shiny sticker, and special verbiage IS the elevation to public document. The role of the Registrar is to make certain information -- civil states, like marriage status, citizenship, etc. -- known publicly. Public document does not equal publicized information: publicized information is that available to all interested third parties (as with a Registry).
   
   I asked:
   
   We were married in Andalucia, now we reside in Catalunya. Do we have to register the document (if we choose to do so) in Andalucia ?
   
   He responded:
   
   As for where to submit these documents: Ley 20/2011, del Registro Civil governs this matter. Per articles 3, 10, and 20 of the law, you are able to submit your documents (related to article 4) at any Civil Registry. You should also be able to do so electronically or at your town hall.
   
   
   
8. Went to local (Nou Barris) govt office, since the web site led me to believe they were a branch office of Registro, but they said they weren't, we have to go to Registro Civil or somewhere. They weren't sure what to do. But they did give me some useful pages, including an email address (for Barcelona): registrocivil.barcelona.matrimonios at justicia.es
   
   
9. Sent an email to that address, and quickly got a response which translates to:
   
   You have to present the writing of capitulations (the one that on the last page there is a note that says that it is addressed to the Civil Registry and must be presented in the Civil Registry of the town where you were married).
   
   If they got married in Barcelona city, one of you can come and ask for an information number for Section L.
   
   If they were married in another locality, they will have to take it personally or send it by certified mail with acknowledgment of receipt to the corresponding civil registry.
   Our "capitulaciones matrimoniales" doesn't have such a note on the last page, but has something like that in the middle, article V.
   
   
10. Found email address (registrocivil.jerezdelafrontera at justicia.es), sent questions to them about what form to use, tasa to pay, how to register the document, and quickly got a response which translates to:
    
    You must go to the Civil Registry of your home to send us, through them, the deeds of marriage agreements. Once registered by us, we will return them in the same way.
    So the two registries are disagreeing about how to do it.
    
    
11. An abogado online was talking to me and the registro, and came up with same answer as Jerez: go to the Registro where you live, and they will send the document to the Registro where your marriage is recorded.
    
    
12. In Barcelona, central Registro is at Placa Duc de Medinaceli 3, no cita needed, generally open 0900-1400. Section L is what I want.
    
    
13. 24 July 2018: Went to the Registro, stumbled through it, got it done. They copied my Tarjeta Comunitaria, padron, marriage certificate. They took the original and copia simple of my capitulaciones matrimoniales. I signed a page. No tasa needed. Done, no copy of anything for me, I'll get something back from Jerez in the mail, I think.
    
    
14. 11/2018: after consulting lawyers, we decided doing a "capitulaciones matrimoniales" of "bienes separados" had been a bad idea in terms of inheritance taxes. So we went back to same notario and did another "capitulaciones matrimoniales", specifying "gananciales" (shared property).
    
    I'm still a bit confused: The notario seems to be saying this is the best of both worlds: if an account has only my name on it, it's not considered shared property, until I die and then for tax purposes it IS considered shared, my wife gets taxed on only 50% of it. As you open accounts and buy real estate, you can decide which is shared and which is not. But then when I die, wife gets taxed on only 50% of everything. Doesn't make sense to me. Not sure what happens in case of divorce.
    
    
15. Picked up the new document, paid €67.
    
    
16. 11 Dec 2018: Went to Registro again, stumbled through it, got it done. They examined my Tarjeta Comunitaria, took my padron convivencia (squawking a bit that I printed it at home), took the marriage certificate. They took the original and copia simple of my capitulaciones matrimoniales. I signed a page. No tasa needed. Done, no copy of anything for me, I'll get something back from Jerez in the mail, I think.
    
    
17. 23 Feb 2019: Received a letter saying come to Registro. Went to Registro, picked up the document. It's the second one we did, the one filed 11 Dec 2018. I guess the one filed 24 July 2018 has disappeared, or maybe it will come later.
    
    

At the start, I already had residency (valid TIE) and Libro de Familia. I am married to a Spanish citizen.

So, for me, acquiring the TC mainly means getting onto NHS healthcare for free (I'll drop Convenio Especial). Might mean better NHS coverage too, such as coverage when visiting other EU countries ? I might get permission to work (but I don't want to work). Might mean I don't have to renew residency for another 5 years, instead of about 1.5 years from now.

2/4: Started trying for a cita. None available.

2/8: Got a cita ! It's for more than 3 months from now, 5/18.

5/18: Went to first appointment, with my partner. All the official wanted was application form (I left blank the 3rd page, list of documents supplied), my TIE, my partner's DNI, my passport and copies of all pages, padron conviviencia, and proof of our marriage. No need for anything else I brought: copy of application form, copies of ID cards, proof of medical insurance, proof that my partner is "alta" in SS, bank stmt, photographs.

Official ran the documents through a scanner and gave them all back. Application form is stamped.

But a problem: the Libro de Familia was not accepted as proof of our marriage. We have to supply a marriage certificate, which we don't have, never received one. He said go to web site of registro central, or go to their office in person, to get one. We have one month to supply it. He gave me a "Requerimiento Aportacion Documentos" page that has an expediente/requerimiento number, my ID information, then a line specifying that I'm missing an "inscripcion del matrimonio" document.

So I went to Registro Civil de Barcelona and ordered matrimonio certificate. Same price for 1, 2 or 3 copies, so I ordered 3. Price €43. Paid by US credit card. We got married in Cadiz province, so looks like the certificates will come from there. Had to give a lot of information: names, my NIE, where married, date of marriage, registry page number from Libro de Familia, reason for requesting certificate, where to send, etc. Didn't have to have a digital certificate. Immediately received an email confirmation.

5/31: Matrimonio certificates arrived in the mail. Sent one of them, and a copy of the "Requerimiento Aportacion Documentos", to the registry address specified on the RAD (double-check the address, it was truncated on my document).

6/12: Received an email saying there was a resolution of my expediente. Connected to SEDE and tried to download the resolution. But it requires a Java application to "sign" it, and none of the browsers allow Java any more.

6/18: Went to Extranjeria to ask them to print my resuelto, but they said go away and send the expediente number to infoext.barcelona@correo.gob.es, so I did that.

6/21: Got email response, with resuelto document (PDF) attached. It says "Acuerdo ... Conceder", which means favorable resolution. Tells me to make another cita for "expedicion de TIE", at SEDE's "Internet Cita Previa".

On that page, I chose tramite "CNP- Toma de Huellas (Expedicion de Tarjeta) y Renovacion de Tarjeta de Larga Duracion". On next page, country abbreviation for USA is "EEUU". Left the "expiration date" field empty. Worked through the pages, and immediately got a cita, first try ! For 8 days from now.

[Later that same day, I received a copy of the same resuelto document in postal mail. This copy has an authentication bar-code on it that the electronic copy doesn't have.]

Resuelto says I've been granted 5 years ("fecha de caducidad" is 5 years from first office visit date). Has a couple of "if" clauses saying if less than 6 months granted, no need to do anything further, but since I get more than 6 months, I have to do another visit.
Documents to bring to office:
Took photos at booth in metro station; remember to take off eyeglasses.

6/29: To Extranjeria for my cita. List of documents they wanted is what is shown above, no problems. Did fingerprints of both index fingers. They kept my TIE and one tasa page. Received a resguardo, official says pick up my new card in 4+ weeks, I think. Resguardo says it expires in 45 days. Take passport when going to pick up card.

7/17: Went to office at Carrer de Mallorca 213, and they had my card, probably could have gone a few days earlier. Handed over the resguardo, showed my passport, they asked if I'd already turned in my previous card (I had, the previous office kept it), gave me my new card. Done !

Later went to local govt and asked if they need to see my new card so they could update my padron. They said since my NIE hasn't changed, they don't need to do anything.