Moving From USA To Spain

I think I can give you some pretty honest analysis, because I've also lived in America most of my life, but traveled to around 50 countries (in Europe and around the world), lived everywhere from NYC to Phoenix to small towns in America, and have lived in England, France, and Slovenia. I'm also a U.S.-EU dual citizen, meaning I can live anywhere in the USA or anywhere in Europe, as I please.

First, however, let me disabuse you of the notion that Europe is one big place: no, it's about 30 different countries, and these vary dramatically in terms of quality of life and culture.

Anyway, that said, in no particular order, here are some things you might find "annoying". Note that I don't necessarily think these are bad things -- in many cases, I think they are good things -- but I'm trying to be open-minded as to what might bother your "average American".

1.) Gas is expensive and owning a car is more expensive -- from getting a license to registering the vehicle -- so if you're someone who just loves to drive a big car everywhere as much as you want as you please, Europe may not the be the best place for you.It's even harder to drive a car in/around most cities, which often have pedestrian zones in the center and cameras that ticket you if you drive in the wrong place at the wrong time.

2.) Apartments and homes are generally smaller than in the USA. For example, families in the UK often live in about the same amount of space as your average small-ish two-bedroom apartment in suburban USA.

3.) While most apartments and homes have their own washing machine (and this is nice, since a lot of apartments in NYC, DC, SF and LA don't have washing machines at all), they often don't have dryers; so Europeans have to hang their clothes out to dry.

4.) Fewer homes and apartments have dishwashers, although this is changing to some degree, given the Ikea-ization of European kitchens.

5.) Income taxes are, generally speaking, much higher in European countries. Now, if you're a young and healthy single man or woman, maybe this is bad for you, but if you have a few health problems, maybe dream of having children, maybe want to get a college degree or master's degree, maybe you prefer taking the train to driving; you'll find that those taxes do indeed pay for "nice things" in Europe, nice things that either cost money in America (visiting a doctor when you get sick or going to college) or nice things that just don't exist in America (excellent public transportation and rail service). So, you'll have to do the math for yourself: do the benefits for you outweigh the extra tax paid? And, again, taxes vary: for example, taxes are higher in Norway and Belgium than they are in the UK and France.

6.) Countries and societies may feel less welcoming to "outsiders." Canada and the USA, for example, are pluralistic nations of French, Italians, Jews, Catholics, Germans, Chinese, Japanese, etc. In contrast, in Europe, you might feel like "France is for the French", "Italy is for the Italians", and "Slovenia is for the Slovenes". In other words, it can be hard to "fit in" for some Americans in Europe. The other side of the coin is that if you have more liberal social values (e.g. atheist, tolerant of gay rights and drug use, progressive politics), you may feel like you "fit" more in Europe than in certain parts of the USA. It all depends on where in Europe and where in the USA we're comparing and contrasting.

7.) If you get hot easily and live in Central or Southern Europe, you may be surprised by the fact that, compared to the USA, many homes and businesses don't have air-conditioning. Similarly, in the winter, many Europeans are more likely to put on a sweater than blast the heat. Year-round indoor temperatures of 68-70 degrees are less common in Europe.

8.) By and large, Europeans are dramatically less religious than Americans. So, if you're a fan of "wearing God on your sleeve", you may not like living in Europe, particularly Northern Europe. The reality, though, is that even Italy is less religious than America -- let that sink in.

9.) Labor markets are much less "liberal" than the USA in many countries, which means it can be more difficult to find work as an "outsider" with education credentials from a different country. Of course, once you get a contract, it will be much harder to fire you than would be the case in the USA.

10.) Much of Europe is farther North than the continental USA, so in the winter, you will find it gets dark earlier and gets light later. In the summer, though, it will be light longer. If you like the desert climate of Phoenix or the sub-tropical climate of Florida, you won't find that in Europe. Italy's climate is a lot like California. The UK's climate is a lot like Oregon.

11.) Fewer stores are open 24/7. If you visit a small city or town in France on a Sunday (even the UK), you might wonder, "why is everything closed?". On Sundays, in many European countries, large stores and shops are closed, or only open for limited hours.

12.) Going back to #6, if you don't speak the language of the country in which you're living, life will be more difficult. Dealing with the government? Renting or buying a home or apartment? Talking to a doctor? Shopping? All of those things. Also, it goes without saying, that you will feel more isolated.

13.) Many countries have pretty restrictive immigration rules. If you're not a European citizen, getting the right to work and live in a European country is more challenging than, say, Canada or Argentina.

14.) In many countries, European professionals get paid less than U.S. professionals. That said, those in non-professional jobs (i.e. store clerks, etc.) will often make more than their U.S. colleagues in Northern Europe. In Southern Europe, almost everyone makes less money, but it's also the case that the cost of living is much lower than the U.S. and health care is still free, along with maternity and paternity benefits and paid vacation.

Hi all, I wanted to put together a brief overview or sort of wiki thing for one of the biggest groups I see on here: Americans wanting to move to Europe. If you have questions or more to add (or you disagree!) please leave a comment and I can edit my post accordingly.

DISCLOSURE: I'm just an American guy who did it myself, and I see a lot of people who seem to want to move to Europe. Your experience may vary ... dramatically. I'm sure plenty of people will take exception.


So you want to move to Europe, huh?

Welp, you're probably not the first person to think of that. Before you make the leap, I think it would be helpful to hear a few things from someone who has done the leap before. Twice, actually.

My background: I am a 35 year old college-degreed (Bachelor's degree only) man with a wife and two kids. When I moved to Germany in 2014, I was only a US Citizen, though I was pursuing Italian citizenship via Jure Sanguinis. My first move to Europe had me qualifying via a Blue Card, but now I have an Italian passport and moved back to Germany this year.

OK, enough about me. Before you move, you need to really think about what you're trying to accomplish by moving to Europe.


Why do you want to move?

• "The politics are just too much!"
  
  This is probably the number one reason I see as to why people have decided that now is the time for them to move. Interestingly, this argument tends to increase in popularity as we get closer to a Presidential election. It's true, American politics are increasingly hostile, and as one watches TV (on any side of the spectrum) all they can see is more division.
  
  While this is certainly true, I will remind you that just because you're ignorant of politics in Europe doesn't mean that they're any less divisive. Hungary has a de facto dictatorship. Poland is edging that way as well. Germany has seen the rise of nationalistic politics and so has Italy. Fact of the matter is, political tensions globally are rising at a dramatic clip. "Yeah well, at least I'll be blissfully ignorant" you may respond, but if that is the case, it would just be a lot simpler for you to turn off your TV, stop reading Facebook and Twitter, and build like minded friendships than moving yourself half a lifetime away.
  
  
• "The healthcare though!"
  
  Yep, this is going to be a big one, I'm sure. The truth is that healthcare isn't always as cheap as it's hinted in the US, but it on the whole is better. Every country takes a different approach. For Germany, I was eligible for a choice between public and private insurance. Private insurance cost me about 700 Euro a month for my wife and I, and it opens the doors to top-notch care, no waits, and really a totally different system. Friends in the public system sometimes dealt with waits, a little less choice, but nothing remotely miserable. Quality of care is a lot different as well, with a focus on the patient rather than falling back on pharmaceutical drugs. But I just included this to remind everyone that it's not free-free. It's funded by higher taxes, or if you're in the private system also, taxes and decently high monthly premiums. The good news is that 700 EUR/month covered 100% of everything I had to pay. My oldest child was born in Germany and we paid 450 EUR out of pocket, because I stayed in a bed for five nights with my wife to help take care of the baby. Otherwise it would've been completely free.
  
  
• "I just want to be somewhere different!"
  
  I think there's probably a lot more diversity, opportunity, and lower risk by staying in the US. From the Pacific Northwest, to the Great Plains, to Hawaii to the Virgin Islands, the US passport gives you access to live in a variety of climates, political landscapes, and with a lot more economic opportunity. Which brings us to my next point.
  
  
• "But I went on vacation and I just fell in love with it"
  
  Yeah dude, I go on vacation in Italy once a year and love every moment of it. What I wouldn't love? Waiting a month to get the cable or internet guy to show up to my apartment. Sure the pace is cute when you're on vacation and have no need to do anything particularly quickly, but there's a huge difference between "Life on Vacation" and "Life in the real world". In a lot of places you will likely be unable to afford (or want to live in) the touristy areas (which are overcrowded due to tourists like you once were). Obviously tourism also keeps prices higher than they would be for the normal local economy, which we'll come back to later.
  
  

Do you realize moving to a foreign country sucks?

OK, yes, I've done it twice now. But suggesting that it's "easy" by any stretch of the imagination would be laughable at best. Moving to a foreign country means dealing with differences, many of them bigger than any differences you've ever had to deal with in your life. The cultural differences can be massive, and can even hurt your professional life as you struggle to adjust.

• "Yeah but I went on vacation to XYZ and they said everyone speaks English there"
  
  Yes, this may be the case that most educated people speak English in a particular country, and you can probably mostly get around speaking English in places like Amsterdam or Berlin. But the fact of the matter is that most government offices (which you'll be spending a lot of time in, especially at first) and contracts will be in the local language, so as to not have any confusion about what the author's intent is. Plus, once you get a place to live, if your pipe breaks at 2 AM, you'll need to call someone who can come fix it immediately, and you'll have to be able to communicate what the problem is to him or her.
  
  
• "OK but the language is fine, I studied it in school and stuff"
  
  Sure, but then there's the culture. Things that are the norm in the US are not the norm in Europe and vice versa. It's not even things like personal space, it could be office norms (Germany as an example is very hierarchical, so if you go for an office job, expect to be told what to do, unless it's a very international firm), outlook (Americans are very optimistic as a whole, and it is not well-appreciated in all countries in Europe).
  
  

Besides these things, there's the elements of just moving to a place where you don't know anyone, have very few common cultural experiences with which to build friendships, and perhaps other European cultures are less friendship-inclined than America (my experience is that it has been very tough to make German friends due to them tending to stay in their own friends-circle from their early adult years throughout the remainder of their life).


You may not be welcome here

OK so a few elements to this. First of all, in a foreign country in which you aren't a citizen, you are, by default, a guest. That means that at any time, you could be potentially deported if you F*ck Up Real Big™. It doesn't happen a lot, but understand that you're at a huge disadvantage of not 1) Knowing the rules very well because you didn't grow up with the same rules. 2) Don't speak the language so you can't get yourself out of trouble as easily and 3) The local government doesn't need to put up with your sh*t if they don't want to, unlike a citizen.

But besides this, remember how you didn't like the American politics? You know who else might not? Your neighbors, or your coworkers. You know how some Americans have hostility towards immigrants for the perception of stealing their jobs? Yeah, that exists everywhere and you're going to just have to deal with it. For most Redditors, I'm assuming many of you are on the upper social rungs of society ... As an expat or immigrant, you're brought down a few notches.


What would you say you do here?

I've seen a lot of posts where people have no education, skills, or language, and want to move to a particular European country. Dude, really? Going back to my previous point, you're about to be a guest in a country. Who wants a guest who shows up to the party and just drinks too much of the host's beer, throws up on the coffee table, and breaks a vase before going home scot-free?

Edit: A possible opportunity exists if you have Italian, Irish, or Jewish-German ancestry, in which case you may have a claim to citizenship. That is a great question to ask here on the sub.

This goes for "free education" too. Coming to Europe simply to save on school fees (funded by taxpaying local citizens) and then going home? Kind of a dick move, to be fair, and gives some people a bad reputation. If you're truly looking to emigrate (for a long-ish time) then pursue the education, it's definitely your best way into Europe if you are at that stage of your life, but just make sure you find a way to provide value to your host country.

If you do have some semblance of job skills, your best bet is likely to pursue an opportunity through a multinational US corporation with a European presence. That'll likely help you deal with the aforementioned cultural gaps (since they'll be used to American culture), and may allow you to get a visa through company transfer, rather than having to compete for a Blue Card or some other heavily-contested visa.

The Blue Card is probably the best approach if you're a seasoned veteran. That's how I was able to make my first European move, but it required me being an executive in an industry that's decently small for them to make the case that they couldn't find someone to do my job who already was within the EU. If you have high skills and a strong career, you will have an easy path. If you do not, the best way is to figure out how to get into this skillset in the US then transfer over. (My opinion here only)


Are things really that bad for you? Is the grass really greener?

The US offers unprecedented opportunity, a market of 350 million English speakers, geographic and cultural variety, and perhaps most important to some of you: the world's strongest wage environment. Expect to take a 30-50% pay-cut if you move to Europe. My US company started analysts at $60,000 per year. The company in Europe I went to had the same role and they made 28,000 EUR. Coupled with the taxes, your take-home will be a lot less. Sure, you might spend less on rent, healthcare, car, etc., but it's something to think about before pulling the trgger.

Other things to consider:

• Do you really want to be a 6+ hour flight from your family in case things go wrong? Sure, maybe your parents are healthy now, but they might not be forever, and if something happens and you're the only child (or you have a strong family attachment), that last-second transatlantic flight will be ... very ... expensive.
  
  
• Are you more culturally-attached to the US than you think? For me, being 6 hours ahead during sports seasons was brutal. Easily the thing I missed the most about the US. But this can be applicable to a million different things.
  
  
• Having one foot in Europe and one in the US is frustrating for: taxes, family life (if you meet a European spouse and have kids, the kids won't have the same growing up experience as one of the parents, if that's important) and a lot of other things. Be careful!
  
  

That's all I have for now, but I'm sure more things will pop into my head.

If you're still not scared through all this, go for it. It's very rewarding, but it'll be a huge challenge (and for those of us who love the challenge, it makes you a better person!)

Money/tax is honestly a big one. My earnings potential would be higher in the US and my investment opportunities are a lot better there too (I am in Ireland). Expat finance and overall planning is a real nightmare if you are a US citizen abroad. Due to reporting requirements and taxes, it is hard to do investment and banking abroad. Many banks and brokerages won't open an account for you if you are a US person for tax purposes. But then US based banking and investment options often don't want to work with US citizens abroad, if you don't have a US address. Also hard to plan for retirement when you don't know where you will retire!

The tradeoff is the security of a social safety net - not going into bankruptcy for medical expenses. Statuatory redundancy, good family benefits such as parental leave, etc. Lots of annual leave every year.

...

American in France here. There's absolutely nothing here that's a deal breaker exactly, but I miss lots of things, primarily my friends. I also miss good friend chicken, Mexican food, Korean food, and other food stuff. Other than that, I'd never trade my healthcare and extra free time for a life back in the US.

...

I've been living in Spain for 17 years. The downsides for me have been:

Lack of professional development: I made a huge sacrifice professionally by moving here, even though I got a Spanish undergrad and masters degree. I knew I was doing this, but underestimated how it would feel now that I'm older.

The weirdness of raising a child in a radically different culture. This was fine when he was younger, but the teenage years were made tougher because of our oddball bicultural background.

The difficulty of watching my parents grow old and die (in the case of my dad) from afar.

Friends. I live in Madrid, which is a big city where people come and go a lot, so it's been tough to make and keep friends. And I've avoided other foreigners as much as possible. I'm in a pretty cosmopolitan sort of environment and a lot of my good friends have moved elsewhere over the years, which is painful, because I already have a huge set of long-distance friends in the US and in other countries..

Losing touch with American culture. I don't feel very authentically American anymore. I've been changed too much by living here. But I'm also ALWAYS going to be a foreigner (albeit a highly integrated one) here. That can be annoying at times. I would say you can easily feel like an outsider forever here. And if you do start to feel like an insider (and this takes years and years), then you will feel like an outsider in the US.

Don't underestimate how important it is to learn Spanish extremely well and to understand Spanish culture on a deeper level. If you don't, you won't be able to have meaningful friendships with most people here. I've met a lot of people from the US who are very unhappy here, and don't realize it's because they can never do anything that's beyond the tourist surface, because they lack the ability to really engage in Spanish culture.

...

I've found Europeans to be a lot more traditional than I expected and that can sometimes be a bit alienating. And frustrating because there's also a huge resistance to change, which means things are not always as modern, technically advanced, or efficient as we are used to. This doesn't just affect infrastructure or the things we buy. For instance, while my health insurance is much better than in the US, my actual healthcare is much worse here. Doctors are resistant to progressive treatment. It takes longer for medication that is common in the US to reach the EU. And if you do any kind of research on your own, no matter how credible the sources, you won't be taken seriously. This is not a big deal if you have no major health issues, but it's something to consider if you do.

...

you will never have the sheer number of choices for anything that you have in the US. That's probably the thing I miss the most. All of the low-calorie diet pages have these amazing low-calorie options for tortillas, ice cream, bread, basically all carbs and there isn't a lot of that where I'm at.

...

the number one reason is lack of a well-paying job. many European countries are great places to live IF you have a good job that includes local healthcare.

...

want to start a business as a US expat? the regulatory burden can be massive

...

I've been living in Spain for the last 6 years and I'd say the biggest negative are the salaries / earning potential. I could be making 2-3 times what I am now if I were doing the same job in the US.

Besides that major negative, the others are relatively minor. Such as lack of good customer service, inconvenient business hours (worse if you're in a small town), convenience in general, and a lack of some food options to name a few.

Overall though I'm pretty happy here ...

Residence in Spain can be temporary or permanent. Temporary residence is the situation authorizing a stay in Spain for a period longer than 90 days and shorter than five years. Authorizations for a period not exceeding five years may be renewed regularly, at the request of the person concerned, depending on the circumstances leading to their issuance.

We own an apartment on the Costa del Sol and spend about 6 months / year there. We opted against residency because a) you MUST declare your world-wide investments and assets. If you have income from those assets and pay US taxes at a lower rate than would be the case in Spain for the same assets, the Spanish will tax you for the excess. If you do not declare all your assets, you could run into a huge problem and a very steep fine.

The second reason we opted against residency is the health insurance problem. They want absolute proof that you are covered in the event of health care needs or an emergency. Some companies issue travel insurance that does cover emergencies but not doctor visits. It is up to the individual Spanish Consular Officer to accept or reject your insurance as qualifying.

The reason you find conflicting info on different web-sites is because practically no one inside Spanish immigration offices or in the Consulates know the latest rules or are in any way consistent. Living in Spain is just that: everyone will tell you something different. And the reality of living there doesn't always coincide with the legalities that you might read online.

[When the visa is granted, you have been approved for residency.] In your home country you applied for residency and the Secretary of State of Public Administrations' government delegation in the province that you requested to live in made a decision as to allow you or not based on your application as presented in one of the consulates. From that point on, their decision to allow you or not into their province became an official decision to grant or not grant residency. If you were granted residency by them, the decision was then sent to your local consulate where they, noting that you had been granted residency, processed the additional paperwork to also grant you a visa. A visa in Spain is merely a sticker attached to your passport that is needed to enter the country from abroad. It grants no rights of residency, but rather is freely given when you have already previously acquired the right of residency associated with the visa type (as you already had by that point in the process).

[Re: moving USA to UK:]

Advice: Take nothing. Seriously. Your electronics will not work for the most part (save computers with adapters). [Formal business suits are different.] Your furniture is too large for small UK flats. etc ... Plus, it costs a lot of money to move all that stuff you need to replace - oh, and it is not even possible to donate to charity because it violates UK safety laws (the "do not remove under penalty of law" tags are not valid in the UK).

In short, we took everything, had to get rid of it all, after paying to move it. ...